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a good thing. some of the deductions, raise the law right under 250 and i would be fine with that. until people are willing to get serious and say these are the specific deductions we're talking about and willing to look at the consequences it's hard to take any seriously. >> we were talking during the break about specifics and how terrifying it is for the republicans to get into specifics because as rez ra outlines the patient convulses as it were. where is the hope in all this that a deal will get done? >> i don't think anybody wants to go over the cliff at the end of the day. we now have a really big round number from john boehner but nothing specific within it and as we went through and broke down this various deductions and loopholes many are popular, many of them make an enormous amount of sense and most of them benefit the middle class, not just the rich. i don't know where this -- where that part of the discussion goes because you're talking about unicorns earlier. they're imaginary beasts and this $800 billion through loopholes and deduction is about as real as a unicorn. >> i w
with the republican leadership and governor there and right to work laws. so this creates a whole other dynamic of conversation that heritage with the demint at the top can put in conservative context. now that's the ideal strategy. i think there is some legitimacy that -- to joan's point short of the name calling. >> crazy wing nut may not be your phrase. >> i'm sorry, mike. >> you know, going to be close to watch to see exactly, given his leadership of this organization, do they become something nothing more than than a hatchet job for conservatives or are they principled arguments with that strong conservative undercurrent to them. we'll see. >> speaking of crazy wing nuts if we're talking about a potential move to the center, ann cull tour on fox yesterday, saying that the republicans need to understand they lost and make a deal with the president. let us take a listen to the choice piece of sound. >> are you saying then, for pr purposes, that they should give in to obama on the tax rate? >> not exactly. well, yeah, i guess i am. >> you're saying to capitulate to obama who's -- we don't hav
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